Fandom

[Orthography Enthusiast]

This is a fan forum (obviously.... OE at own obviousness) but I don't think we actually have a topic for discussing fandom. I came across this rather disturbing article and thought I'd put it up as a springboard for discussion. Michael Jackson's death was the occasion for the article (unsurprisingly) but I think it has some wider applicability that we, as fans, maybe could talk about.

The fans killed their idol. They always do.

[ludovica64]

This is a fan forum (obviously.... OE    at own obviousness) but I don't think we actually have a topic for discussing fandom. I came across this rather disturbing article and thought I'd put it up as a springboard for discussion. Michael Jackson's death was the occasion for the article (unsurprisingly) but I think it has some wider applicability that we, as fans, maybe could talk about.

The fans killed their idol. They always do.

My reaction to that is that the woman who wrote it is only giving us half the picture and has no business writing from a standpoint of some authority about something she blatantly has little understanding of nor sympathy with. Her monumental arrogance and self-absorbedness prevents her from even seeing her subject at all clearly and the whole article is just "umpteen words: deadline Monday" with as many kneejerk reaction pejorative statements as possible. She's an idiot for not making a distinction between the very different types of "fandom" that exist

What she is talking about is a paparazzi-led and fed "lack of anything else to think about" This kind of alleged "Fandom" is merely news-hungriness. Hungry for news on a human scale that is unrelated to ourselves.. People in search of a temporary focus or fashion for "something to do" Those aren't real fans, they're bored people who will obsess about a divorcing movie star one week and a dead singer the next.

What is a REAL fan though? In my opinion a REAL fan is someone who experiences the work or the story of another person on a personal level and who DOES NOT OBJECTIFY that person as a fetish object, someone who actually considers the real life feelings and concerns of that person and respects their decisions even if they do not agree with them.. Someone with whom you have empathy in the sense that you can identify to a large extent with the things they say and do and the way they conduct themselves *as if they were a personal friend*

People who consider they have a right to physically touch or phone up or stalk the kids school of a person they admire, simply because they have deigned to bestow their liking on that person are not really seeing a real person, just an image created and displayed largely by TV Magazines and Newspapers. They are not real fans; their obsession is, as I have said elsewhere, fetishistic, egocentric and orgiastic in nature..Such people are invariably disappointed when they discover, as in the authors example of David Cassidy the humanity of the man... (obviously we can all fall prey to that at times.. even whole nations as when Princess Diana died.. but the truth is that the average person was not that interested in Diana.. only the Newspapers were, because they understand so well this empty hunger for the "human story" when its someone rich and beautiful in the public eye, where all voyeuristic prurience can be claimed to be "in the public interest")

Yes we can all have moments of obsession but knowing the boundaries is key. Its one thing to collect and admire photos of a star you like, but quite another to physically assault that person when handed the opportunity (lol) (I know my boundaries)



I had someone today telling me how appalling it was that the tabloid paper The Sun had printed that MJ was bald, emaciated and in appalling physical condition. This was not what the newshounds wanted to hear..

All these people obsessing about MJ.. TBH Ithink they feel guilty They wanted absolution, wanted that he was "OK REALLY" after paparazzi hounding of this mentally unwell person.

Now I NEVER liked Michael Jacksons music, but I never felt that he was much of a sexual person either, and tended to believe him when he said he meant no physical harm to children. I have a non sexual friend so I can relate that mindset to someone I know in real life so that belief is not a huge jump for me.
I do realise he was not well though, and Im not shocked or surprised by The Suns revelations

[algonacchick]

Thank you for that, Louise. Helen's right, that article is disturbing. Those types of fans are not living in reality. Sure, some of the stars out there aren't the nicest people, and don't interact with the fans very much, but we're not those types of fans, and Al isn't that type of star. I've always said we are very lucky that Al is so willing to interact with his fans. He's also always been very humble and grateful to us for his success. I think he is lucky, too, because his fans do respect him and they know the difference between fantasy and reality. I know that Helen posted this total 180 of an article from what we experience as Al fans to get the ball rolling, and it does kind of give one a view of the darker side of fandom. I'm just glad I'm on the bright side.

[ludovica64]

As an afterthought.
You guys know that I am a big fan of Buzzy Linhart

I have loved his music since I was a teen.. big big fan. HUGE


I have the great privilege of also being his close friend, and I get to listen to all his gripes about his health and his various hassles in life with money, authority, family etc and his fears for the future as he waits for health tests and surgical procedures... I also get to hear his anecdotes, about Tim Hardin, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, Bette Midler, Carly Simon and all the rest, and he sings to me on the phone, such scurrilous filth too LOL

He's a real person fulll of fun, and full of flaws as well. He likes talking to me I guess (he can talk the hind leg off a donkey) Hopefully as far as he is concerned, I am what a fan should be.. someone who is still there for you when the world has moved on and forgotten you and youre old and in a lot of pain. Thats my idea of a "Close Personal Friend" anyway.

[scottidog]

A quote from that article that caught my attention

In interviews with the famous, the conversation inevitably drifts into how they deal with fame. The sensible ones, those fortunate to have been raised right, with an understanding of what makes them truly happy beyond fickle public acclaim, play the photo-op game, appreciate their privilege, but put a section of their lives behind a velvet rope. (Though it is my job as an interviewer to break through the velvet rope.)

It's not the average fan makes the celeb's life miserable. It's those whose "job it is" to follow them. The Papparazzi, the press, the "interviewers."

Yeah, we all know there are whack-job stalker type people surrounding the famous, but they're not fans.

[ludovica64]

A quote from that article that caught my attention



It's not the average fan makes the celeb's life miserable.  It's those whose "job it is" to follow them.  The Papparazzi, the press, the "interviewers." 

Yeah, we all know there are whack-job stalker type people surrounding the famous, but they're not fans.

And the press... although she so sniffily distances herself from the whole concept includes the writer of this article.... she needs to look closer to home when apportioning blame

As an extension of what Bobbi said.. I think we can all recall the recent time when Al was in ?The Grove? and got hounded by "reporters" as he went about his day to day business.
Now you may recall that a number of ordinary people spoke to Al while that was going on and he turned and spoke back, even giving one woman a personal moment of his time. He seemed relieved a fan was there, and happy to briefly speak to her and while of course he was unerringly courteous to the reporters, his discomfort with the whole situation was so obvious, and squirmingly painful to watch.. so yeah another reason to hate this article... shifting the blame onto ordinary folks where it mainly lies with reporters.. and dont anyone try to tell me a tabloid journo has never led any celeb into a sex or drugs "sting" for a boost in the circulation.

This reporter is utterly dissembling. She is pointing the finger anywhere other than where it should point.. right slap bang in her own face.
If we are going in for the broad sweep pejorative statement

The Press killed Michael Jackson.. and many many many others

[scottidog]

I remember reading somewhere that Michael Jordan deals with the press and paparazzi by being painfully, boringly normal. The article said that is was normal to see him in his neighborhood in Chicago and no one thought too much about it. The Papps didn't bother following him around because they knew he wasn't going to do anything more interesting than buy his morning newspaper and cup of joe.

BTW, when people find out my last name, I invariably get "any relation to Michael?"

The resemblance is uncanny, don't you think?

[scottidog]

Now you may recall that a number of ordinary people spoke to Al while that was going on and he turned and spoke back, even giving one woman a personal moment of his time. He seemed relieved a fan was there, and happy to briefly speak to her and while of course he was unerringly courteous to the reporters, his discomfort with the whole situation was so obvious, and squirmingly painful to watch..

I do remember that. It was painful to watch. Just let the man get his shopping done already.

ETA: I hope Weird El comments here. She's said some really profound stuff about Al over the years and she's exposed to the fandom of some really big stars. I'd love to hear her input.

[Orthography Enthusiast]

Reading the article, it occurred to me (not for the first time, and I can't tell you how thankful I am for the fact) that even Al's most obsessed or thoughtless fans cannot "kill" him in the Jackson/Cassidy sense, because Al genuinely is one of

...The sensible ones, those fortunate to have been raised right, with an understanding of what makes them truly happy beyond fickle public acclaim

We have the power to ruin a night out at a restaurant for him, but we don't have the ability to ruin his life, because he has not yielded us that power. Yay, Al!
(and if we hear that somebody we know has ruined a restaurant meal for Al, we will fly Scottidog down from Oregon and sic her on 'em )

I found it very interesting to compare this paragraph against my experience in Al fandom:

I have never, even as teenager, understood fandom, can’t see the point of worshipping someone who is no more than a poster on the wall — and doesn’t even know you exist. Love their work, fancy them rotten: yes. Scream until you faint at a gig, write them loopy letters: never...
...
Fandom is so grossly unequal, so self-abasing. Even when you are closest to your Special One you are humiliated by his — at best — polite indifference to your pathetic, onanistic, unreturned love.

I have written a few loopy letters to Al in my time, but I don't worship him. I love his work, I like the way he looks very much, but I feel a little odd sometimes mentioning it too much, precisely because I think of Al as a real person, not a poster.

The amazing thing about the Al fandom thing is that the unequal/self-abasing/humiliating/pathetic/unreturned element doesn't apply here. And I think it's because Al has chosen not only to make himself unusually available to his fans, but also to treat the ones he meets with respect at a minimum, and sometimes more. He jokes with some of us, hugs some of us, remembers some of our names and faces. He knows we exist. He could probably identify half the front row in most concerts he plays.

And all this is hard work. When Al was signing Straight Outta Lynwood, I went through the line and then lingered at the other end (waiting for Suzanne to return from a photo foray so I could give her a little item). I happened to be standing next to Jay Levey, Al's manager, and I said to him, "I love watching Al meet fans. He's so good at it." Jay hastened to assure me, "He really means it." But I already knew he means it. Still, it's hard work. It's no small thing for a still-somewhat-shy man to meet stranger after stranger and respond in a way that will acknowledge them, when you really don't know WHAT they will say. Admittedly, most of us say the same things, but surprises are always a possibility. To do what Al does takes courage, as well as a tremendous amount of effort (good listening is WORK). And good boundaries. I really believe that the only reason Al can do it is that he does not need us. Well, he needs us to be buying things to keep his career afloat, obviously, but he does not need us to keep his sense of self-worth afloat. Maybe that's it... maybe when a fan isn't just so much ego-fodder for the star, then it becomes not-humiliating to be a fan.

[scottidog]

I think Al is also very well grounded. After all these years, he's still amazed and grateful that he gets to be "Weird Al" for a living. He doesn't take lightly that his income comes from his fans, and he does all he can to (reasonably) give us access to his career. And he probably does more than he should to give us access to his life.

I remember a story that OE dredged up from the early years (probably circa RWS, thought I don't remember for sure...)

Anyhoo... the promoter, noticing that Al was very tired, but there was still a large number of fans waiting, hoping for a meet 'n greet. She offered to "send these people home" so he could just get some rest.

His response was "these people are the reason I drive a nice car, and live in a nice house. How can I just send them away?"

One of the earliest things I saw about him when I was becoming a fan was on one of those "I met Al!!!!" fan pages. The girl happened to mention that Al insisted that they take a second picture because he thought he had blinked. It didn't matter to him if he looked goofy in a picture (heck, that's in his job description) but he wanted to make sure that she had a good picture because it was important to her. Because it was going to be a cherished memory for her. So he took a little extra time and effort.

As I thought about that, I realized something important about his character. And it's still one of the things I admire most about him.