What Makes An Album A Hit?

[Bruce the Duck]

Although Al is of course aware of his international audience, especially in Canada, he's always written his songs with an American audience in mind.

While some of the themes he's written about are universal, I don't think it's ever by design. I don't think he sits down and says, "Hmmm, how can I make this song apply to people in Europe? Oh, I know, I'll make it about Internet since that's popular in Europe too!" It's more about what he thinks is popular in America.

But with songs like CP, he missed the ball. Songs about TV are not popular. Songs where you make fun of people - THAT'S what's popular.

[TMBJon]

Yes, but it wouldn't be the same.  The point of the song isn't to mock Ozzy or Eminem.  Even with a video, I highly doubt it would get even close to the attention of other songs like "Amish Paradise."

Well, of course it's impossible to tell for sure, since they all HAVE music videos.  But I'll tell you that I first learned about Al in 1988, not from SEEING the music video, but from hearing kids at school singing the song.  Jace's point about adolescents is very true.  They do drive a lot of Al's success.

Point taken about CP, but I maintain that it would have at least been a bigger hit than it was if the "beyond the fanbase" crowd had the chance to see Al in Eminem, Ozzy, etc costumes rather than just singing about them.

And you and Jace are totally on regarding the word of mouth adolescents being a primary way people find out about Al's music. That's certainly how I first heard about him in 1995 - kids singing Jurassic Park and Bedrock Anthem during recess, then hearing those songs on the kids music station I listened to at the time.
And when I found out that all these songs had VIDEOS, my mind went crazy. But that was well after I already knew who Weird Al was.

So I think there's a point of differentiation here, which is whether we are talking about 1) people who have no idea who Weird Al is and first learn about him through this new song, or 2) people who are familiar with past hits like SLN and AP and EI who then learn about a theoretical next big hit and buy the CD/download the track.
These are the two segments of the population that determine whether a song/album is a hit (SOL) or a dud (PH). I think the video helps dramatically to recruit fans from group 2, whereas may not have as big an effect on group 1.

[wayword]

First, let me say how much I enjoy a substantive debate. Thanks for introducing the topic, Bruce the Duck!

Parody-- showing the absurd side of a person or issue-- is indeed one of the longest-lasting forms of humor. That's why Monty Python is still alive and well, while other more topical comedians have come and gone.

I think Al does great parody, and he also does more topical stuff, which in my book won't be as long-lasting. But the stuff he nails on the head, he absolutely nails. For me, "Callin' in Sick" is a masterpiece, as is "Dog Eat Dog". They both scream out against the horror (to me) of the 9-to-5 job-- a nightmare I am again reliving (after being independently employed for 8 years) due to our miserable economy. This is social parody at its finest. "Callin' in Sick" is one of the first original Al songs I heard, and it absolutely energized me to find out more. I know this one is low on your list because of where you rated it in the song run-off. For me, it's one of his finest. Why don't we agree?

My speculation is... age! You young thing. "Callin' in Sick" is "my" kinda music. "Couch Potato" I can't even listen to. I don't care if it's brilliant; I hate the music and I won't listen to it. I won't listen to "Bedrock Anthem". It's noise. I hate it. I want more tuneful music. As a rule-- all this is just general bias. "White and Nerdy" is so brilliant it transcends its genre of music-- but it is a tuneful piece. Repetitive yacking is not what I want as a music choice. Give me harmonies, tunes, interesting musical arrangements-- please! Al's originals so outclass many of his parodies based off current "hits" that I know I will never see eye-to-eye with the current generation of hit-making musical listeners.

You can't HONESTLY compare the success of "Jurassic Park" and "The Saga Begins" with the likes of "Fat," "Smells Like Nirvana," and "Amish Paradise." That would be like comparing the success of Keanu Reeves's "Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey" to "The Matrix."

Hey, these were both great movies! I admit I prefer Bill and Ted-- that's timeless-- but you have to admit the Matrix was absolutely huge. (Edit: I just noticed you wrote "Bogus Journey" vs. "Excellent Adventure"-- never mind.) As for me, the songs I recognize from this list-- the ones I knew even before I was an Al fan, are... "The Saga Begins". Only that. I don't remember hearing or singing any other of these songs until I became an Al fan. (Of course I knew "Eat It" and "Like a Surgeon"-- those were from my time, and I loved them.)

So I suppose I would agree with your basic argument of "make fun of people", except for me the more subtle parody in songs like "Dog Eat Dog" and "Why Does This Always Happen to Me" appeals more than an overt "Canadian Idiot". I would also add the correlary of musical taste. I can endure a few rounds of "Fat", but underneath it's Michael Jackson and Jackson has always been way too bland for me. On the other hand, I will blast "Don't Download This Song" repeatedly from my speakers, because I love the sarcasm and the music.

What makes an album a "hit"? Obviously, how many people buy it. But I believe it's still the younger crowd who buys more music, so their tastes are going to prevail. That means that they might like an album stacked with parodies in musical genres I really don't want to hear-- so that album will be certainly less appealing to me. I just hope Al keeps getting enough hits that he can keep making music that appeals to people like me-- which he does in spades. There's only a few songs per album I have to "listen around".

[ludovica64]

Interesting way of looking at it Marie. I have to say I also find rap-music unlistenable, and yet ALL my favourite Al songs are rap, so I guess it isn't just an age thing. I agree with you on Callin' In Sick and I'd extend that to include Cavity Search and I Remember Larry and others we can agree are more likely to appeal to my age group.

As I have said often enough before, the humour factor isnt a big issue with me, but lyrical cleverness IS which is why I like his raps so much I guess; he brings craft and intelligence to tunes that previously had suffered from execrable half-wit (and thats a compliment) poetry in the original songs
and Bruce the Duck, you can't say he is sensitive to an international audience and in the same breath say that he only cares what's big in America, that makes no sense. I was just saying what *needs* to be done in order to make a breakthrough in Europe, thats all..

[Bruce the Duck]

As I have said often enough before, the humour factor isnt a big issue with me, but lyrical cleverness IS which is why I like his raps so much I guess; he brings craft and intelligence to tunes that previously had suffered from execrable half-wit (and thats a compliment) poetry in the original songs
and Bruce the Duck, you can't say he is sensitive to an international audience and in the same breath say that he only cares what's big in America, that makes no sense. I was just saying what *needs* to be done in order to make a breakthrough in Europe, thats all..

I...didn't say that. Go back and reread my post before you quote me, please.

Al is not the least bit concerned with making a breakthrough in Europe, and rightfully so. He doesn't need to be big in Europe to be successful. The vast majority of his audience are Americans, so that's who he should, and always will target.

Though, that's really getting away from teh topic at hand.

What some of you (ludio and wayword) are misunderstanding is that personal preference is irrelevant in this discussion. I personally love "Poodle Hat," and I think "Dare to be Stupid" and "Bad Hair Day" are incredibly weak albums. But that's irrelevant to the discussion. What I'm getting at is what makes an album a success. Citing that you prefer "Callin' In Sick" over "Canadian Idiot" is irrelevant. "Callin' in Sick" was never a single. And NOBODY outside Al's fanbase would even know the song. I know that there are many songs that many FANS find to be better than some of the big name hits. But that's not the point. The point is WHY some LEAD SINGLES are successful while others are not.

[wayword]

Still enjoying the discussion, Bruce. Just to clarify, you invited the album/single confusion yourself. When you say "album", most people are going to think "album". If you meant to evaluate only the success of the singles, you really should have initiated a discussion about "what makes a single successful".

Yes, yes, I know you explained your rationale above, but we all know albums that are complete losers and only have one successful single that made them sell any copies at all. What I'm saying is that I personally enjoy more of the songs on "Bad Hair Day" than I do on "Running with Scissors", therefore I would rate that album higher. We all know that some albums are simply overlooked by the public, and that others get poor or exceptionally good critical reviews, often out of sync with the merit of the actual songs on the disc.

In your quest to find the real reason behind an album's success, I honestly think you need to look beyond the lead single. That's the teaser; any number of factors could lead to an album selling better or more poorly than the single alone might warrant. For example, "White and Nerdy" is still so popular YouTube routinely maxes out it's "also viewing" counter at 20, yet I don't think the sales of the album SOL reflect this massive popularity.

[TMBJon]

What I'm saying is that I In your quest to find the real reason behind an album's success, I honestly think you need to look beyond the lead single. That's the teaser; any number of factors could lead to an album selling better or more poorly than the single alone might warrant.

Yeah, but this is meant to be a discussion of what makes an album a COMMERCIAL hit, thus the tie-in between album and lead single.
Our opinions of which albums are "more of a success" than others are essentially irrelevant to the conversation.

[Bruce the Duck]

Thanks, Jon. That's what I would have posted in response.

wayword, you're still missing the point. What I'm talking about when I say success is COMMERCIAL success. Mass appeal. Beyond the fanbase. And in the case of Al, the success of the lead single is DIRECTLY proportional to the success of the album. Now, the reason why W&N's success far oversahdows the success of SOL has largely to do with the ability of people to download music on the Internet and watch the videos on places like youtube. With those sources available, the general public doesn't need to BUY as much. But that doesn't diminish the fact that the song is commercial hit.

Again, I understand that YOUR opinion of "SOL" has as much to do with the other 11 tracks as it does with W&N. But the opinion of the fanbase has NOTHING to do with sales. The people on this forum will buy Al's next album no matter what (except for Well, Well, Well, who'll probably just download it illegally), even if it stinks! But the general public won't take notice unless it has a strong enough lead single. And in my opinion, a strong single for Weird Al means one that directly mocks somebody or a group of people.

[BabyBoolie27]

You make some really valid points there, and two thumbs up for all the effort that you put into that WOW!

That said I think that the major reason that Eat It and Like A Surgeon were such hits was the time period that they were released. That generation was, for lack of better wording, easier to impress. It is the same principle behind why Star Wars 4,5,6 were more successful than the later 1,2,3 versions. At the time it was cutting edge technology, but as people started to demand more and more even things that are awesome fall sort of expectations. People want more bang for the buck and are quick to dismiss things that aren't attention grabbing from the start.

I think that to truly appreciate Al's music you have to listen to it several times. I am always hearing things that I missed the first time, and it really makes me like the song even more. Some now-a-days don't want to take that time! Hey I just got the Trapped in the Closet With Vanna While thing thanks to this forum...or maybe I am just slower than most!

Also it is really hard to nail down who is a top artist today when there are so many different styles of music, and everyone has different chart toppers. What one person may consider number one, another may not ever have heard of them. I didn't know who T.I. was before Al...Back in the 80's it was different, one chart! So when Al parodied something everyone knew who it was so that translated into a big hit.

So moral of the story go 80's!

[Mystik Tomato]

It is the same principle behind why Star Wars 4,5,6 were more successful than the later 1,2,3 versions. At the time it was cutting edge technology, but as people started to demand more and more even things that are awesome fall sort of expectations.

No, I think it's more that Episodes 1, 2 & 3 sucked. Especially 2.