Isn't this illegal?

Yank27 · Post by **Yank27** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:22 pm

Hey Bermuda,

Go to ebay and put this item number in the search. 896225094

Isn't this illegal?

Post by **bermuda** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:42 am

I don't know yet, I already saw that however.

haroldwaide · Post by **haroldwaide** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:45 pm

It seems like it would be. I couldn't make it to the exhibit myself, but I'm not about to pay for a video of it and cheat the OC fair people...Was there anything said at the exhibit prohibiting videotaping?

Harold

Post by **bermuda** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:39 am

I don't think cameras or video were prohibited, and there were plenty of security personnel and staffers who would have stopped it if that was the case.

It's very uncool to try and capitalize on Al and the Fair in that way, but I don't think it's illegal. Only Al's fans can make this person's venture successful, or not.

Rachael27 · Post by **Rachael27** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:34 am

I videotaped the exhibit on Friday. It took me a long time because in between, I was talking to all of the security people. They had no problems with people taping. However, I'd never dream of selling my videotape anywhere. That's just rediculous!

:yell:

Rachael

Post by **anthontherun** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:54 pm

Actually, I think it is illegal. eBay has a strict policy of no bootlegs.

Post by **bermuda** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:09 am

There's a fine line about what constitutes a bootleg, when there's not an existing authorized product to begin with.

In the case of an Al concert, there IS an existing product - even though it's probably not the same date as someone's personal video recording - and that's where the bootlegging issue is clear cut, and also when I terminate an auction. Since the fair wasn't already making some sort of media available on the exhibit, and if cameras weren't prohibited, it's a tough decision as to whether it's a bootleg in the context of ebay's policy - that is, that it's pirated or counterfeit material.

Still, it's capitalizing on Al's name and history, even if Al or the fair didn't intend to issue a tape or book as a souvenir. But it's essentially a home movie, and I don't think it's technically within my right to terminate the auction. I certainly could have though, and I'm sure it would have sent an appropriate message.

Bermuda

Yank27 · Post by **Yank27** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 7:58 am

Actually, for the concerts, I heared that people couldent tape the shows, but the backstage stuff didn't seem like a problem. In fact, someone in a yahoo group was offering a 7 minute tape of backstage stuff, and he/she attepted to record the concert, but they wouldent let them. So, I guess what Bermuda said there was probably how things were handled there.

But, on this issue with the rare songs (home demos, etc) are these illegal for trading because they were pirated? Because there is no copywrite on that stuff. (at least that I know of) Except for parody's Al may have done, I can see that being illegal, but the originals like "Nobody Here But Us Frogs" I cant. I know I asked this before, but do you think you could clear it up a little more?

Post by **bermuda** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:48 am

Except for them appearing either on Basement Tapes or Dr. Demento shows, the old songs would have to be pirated to be out there. I suspect that Al copyrighted those at some point early in his career, and in the case of the Demento shows, technically, the syndicators also copyrighted the content of the shows.

Getting back to the original issue, if the taper had captured Al's videos as they were running on one of the screens, and tried to sell that, it would definitely be a copyright violation I would have stopped it immediately.

CatraDhtem · Post by **CatraDhtem** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:19 pm

Actually, according to current yet everchanging copyright laws, a "copyright" is in effect the moment something is put into a tangible form. So, even if Al did or did not register each individual song with the Library of Congress, he still has a copyright on them.

If Al wanted to ever contest someone making copies of his unreleased work in a court of law, then I believe an officially registered copyright would be needed to prove he has ownership. Furthermore, the bootlegger would have to prove that they have the rights or permission to sell copies (which I know is an extreme case, since usually most of the tapes are traded from fan-to-fan, but it's just an example).

I do know that Al registered almost all of his songs with BMI, but I'm not sure if that can prove ownership in such a case.